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Websites and what they get you...

  • Aug. 27th, 2008 at 10:43 AM
Stripey Dress
[info]attack_laurel has gone and done it again. Her latest discussion of websites and how they can impact a person's chances for an award in the SCA sparked a whole novel's worth of a reply from me. It's really a good thing to discuss, in my opinion... There ARE people (who are not Laurels, by and large) who have heard rumors that certain chapters/people within the Order of the Laurel who believe that having a website is tantamount to professional suicide.

I want to state, for the record, that this is complete bullshit. I also must state, for the record, that I am not a Laurel, but I think the reason for that has very little, if anything, to do with my website. In fact, I want to make it clear that having my website has only ever helped me to connect with other peers (big and small P, alike). I seriously doubt I would be half the costumer I am right now if it weren't for my website, and the websites of others. I fall into the category of having both a research website and a "body of work" website, which I think is also important... It's not just about showing off my costumes, but it's also not just about words on a page and theories without experiments to prove or disprove or at least lend credence to my ideas.

And here's where I basically copy everything I wrote in comment to [info]attack_laurel's entry, because I think I said it best over there:

As you know, I've had a costuming website online since 1997; back in that day, it was Drea Leed, Melissa Heischberg (sempstress.org) and myself, and then a handfull of meta-link sites like Milieux and the Costumer's Manifesto. As far as I could tell, Drea, Missa and I were the only ones putting up genre-specific information, and even then, the first few years of Drea's site were entirely research-based (I could be wrong about it just being us, because this was obviously pre-Google and social networking, so finding other websites was a tricky thing back in the wild days of early websites). Drea didn't start including pictures of her own work until the early-2000s, and by that time Missa and I had already started doing dress diaries of our works in progress (I want to say that it was Missa who coined the "dress diary" phrase, since I don't remember being aware of it in that teeny little online costuming community until she started using it- And she was ahead of me in the dress diary arena by a year at least).

I think having my website (in all its various incarnations: Sewing The Seeds of Rebellion, The Elizabethan Lady and now Mode Historique) has HUGELY helped me... Not only to connect with other costumers, and to show off my work, but to give myself name recognition. This is valuable both inside and outside the context of the SCA, honestly. Ok, maybe my research isn't current, and maybe I'm wrong on a few accounts, but my stuff is out there and people are free to use it as a spring board for their own ideas. I think it is the neatest feeling in the world to have someone come up to me at an event and tell me how much they love following my website... And it's even neater when they're a Laurel! That's at least a partial credit to my online body of work, and it makes it much easier to reach out to EVERYONE, not just people within my Kingdom or Principality or local shire.

Hell, without my website, I might never have met Missa, or [info]jenthompson, or [info]myladyswardrobe, or [info]silverstah, or [info]demode, or [info]realm_of_venus, or many, many, many others. And websites can be a fantastic icebreaker, too... I might have been too shy to approach [info]callistotoni without having seen her work showcased on Festive Attyre. All of my closest friends came to me through my website, in fact... [info]demode, [info]trystbat, [info]sweetladykt... Never would have met them if it hadn't been for Mode Historique.

All that aside, there are ways to fuck yourself over with a website... If you have a hard time keeping a neutral tone, or if you have really shitty research skills and refuse to listen to any critique that could help you improve your research, then yeah, that might be more of a hinderance than a help.

I also think there is some credence to the *feeling* that websites can be seen as "showing off" rather than as an educational tool (I say "feeling", because I've only ever heard unsubstantiated rumors about that), because there could be people (maybe even Laurels) who believe that the web is a completely frivolous waste of time and the only work that should be worth considering is the work that they can hold in their grubby little hands. That's perfectly valid. I think that physical evidence of your body of work is crucial, and a person should never expect to be recognized for anything on *just* a website. Even if your art is strictly research-oriented, you should be publishing your articles in TI or CA, in addition to keeping an updated web presence. The Laurel is based on the academic model of "publish or perish", and therefore there are certainly members of the order who come from the Old School way of thinking. But that's as close as I've ever come to seeing anything of a disdain for websites.

Comments

[info]marithra wrote:
Aug. 27th, 2008 06:31 pm (UTC)
Ok as a costuming noob what is a Laurel? (Sorry if the question seems dumb, I've been making costumes for over 8 years but I am only really getting into it now)
[info]marymont wrote:
Aug. 27th, 2008 10:50 pm (UTC)
The Laurel is the SCA Order of Peerage for the Arts. It is the highest recognition the SCA has for the Arts, and ranks equivalently with the Chivalry and the Pelican (which is given for service to the SCA). As a Laurel, you are expected to be at the top of your game in your art form(s) (one or more arts or sciences), to share your knowledge, and to be an example of courtesy and courtly behavior.
[info]gurdymonkey wrote:
Aug. 27th, 2008 06:51 pm (UTC)
The only reason I HAVE a website is because I got really tired of people posting to the SCA Japanese yahoo group that they couldn't figure out how to make what is a fairly simple garment based on the half a dozen websites that were available at the time. Like Topsy, she just growed.
[info]sstormwatch wrote:
Aug. 27th, 2008 07:38 pm (UTC)
I thank you for your web site.
[info]sarcasticmuppet wrote:
Aug. 27th, 2008 08:33 pm (UTC)
It's a really interesting discussion. Before I had an excuse, I was forming opinions on 16th c. clothing based on the work of Melissa Heischberg, Drea Leed, and others (including you [/fangirl]), but when I actually went to the library and opened a book or seven, I found that I had been missing so much relying on the research of others. It doesn't make websites any less valuable as a resource -- It was a really great start, and I loved (and still love) the "How I did it" aspect. That seems to fill in the gaps between the painting or book page and the finished product, and makes a daunting undertaking seem somewhat doable.

Looks like you don't need my encouragement, but I sincerely hope you and others continue doing what you're doing.
[info]sarahbellem wrote:
Aug. 27th, 2008 08:37 pm (UTC)
I love hearing stuff like this! Seriously!

You make a really great point: The sort of websites we're talking about here are not supposed to be used in lieu of real crack-open-a-book-research, but as supliments. It happens all the time, however... People get lazy, look up a website, and then just copy/parot back what they read online, perpetuating all kinds of inaccuracies.
[info]etaine_pommier wrote:
Aug. 27th, 2008 08:57 pm (UTC)
Publish or Perish
The Laurel is based on the academic model of "publish or perish", and therefore there are certainly members of the order who come from the Old School way of thinking."

This has not been my experience with the Laurel council at all, either as a candidate or as a member of the order. My own perception has always been that a Laurel should be more akin to a Master Craftsman than an academe. So I'm curious as to the experience that leads you to believe the above? We can certainly talk offline if you like.
[info]j_i_m_r wrote:
Aug. 27th, 2008 09:41 pm (UTC)
Re: Publish or Perish
I second Etaine's comment. I've sat in Laurel councils for over a quarter of a century and I've not heard anyone say the having a website diminishes a candidate's path. The publish or perish mentality was at one time common in another kingdom I lived in for awhile (I don't know if it still holds there) but it has never been the expectation in the kingdom you and I live in. However, if one feels the need to publish on paper, your friendly local group and principality newsletters always need material ... so says this former chronicler :-)
[info]sarahbellem wrote:
Aug. 27th, 2008 11:12 pm (UTC)
Re: Publish or Perish
It's one part of the original reply on [info]attack_laurel's post that doesn't really translate without the original context, now that I've taken a nap and can focus properly. :) Within her post, it was suggested by others that there was a lot of negative flack from Laurels over whether or not a web presence was a good thing for someone to have if they're being considered for candidacy. That passage in my comment/post was meant to be a theoretical exploration of how a rumor like that could get started, but wasn't intended to be quite so "This is the way it is and that's that." In other words, I was using my grammar poorly and it come out sounding like a statement, derived from personal experience than a purely hypothetical suggestion.
[info]sarahbellem wrote:
Aug. 27th, 2008 11:19 pm (UTC)
P.S.
(I like the way we do things here in the West, personally) ;)
[info]sarahbellem wrote:
Aug. 27th, 2008 11:07 pm (UTC)
Re: Publish or Perish
I was intending to address the comment (in the original context of the thread where it originated from) of the rumors that there were Laurels who frowned upon web-based publication. It was just my supposition that that might be one of the reasons why that rumor may have started... That's all. Don't want to start any rumors of my own, that's for sure!

I'll edit and clarify all of this later when I'm not so exhausted. :)
[info]silverstah wrote:
Aug. 27th, 2008 09:22 pm (UTC)
I am so grateful for folks like you, Jen, Kass, Drea, and others who paved the way for the online costuming community. Thanks to folks like you who had the foresight to document and share your costuming trials and tribulations, we've all come together to form one great big, bright shining community of folks who share information, techniques, research, and (my favorite part!) photos of the end result.

I truly believe that the world is a better educated, prettier place thanks to those who have published their work online - and it's great to see that community grow each and every day.

I do agree that it can totally come back and bite you in the ass, though. Folks who consistently publish negative or inflammatory information create negative reputations for themselves, just as those who participate positively in the community create positive reputations for themselves. You reap what you sow.

Best part - like you said - is making connections with people all over the world. :)
[info]turdoken wrote:
Oct. 2nd, 2008 05:00 pm (UTC)
I have to agree with you that having a website illustrating your work, research and abilities is a huge benefit for a candidate who is being looked at for membership by the Order. It may be different in other Kingdoms though? Drea and I came up through the ranks togethor and have discussed this many times at shire meetings, undoubtedly including tonight! Until recently, our Kingdom was 22 hours from end to end by car so few of us ever got to meet and greet candidates in person, making websites absolutely indispensible. 'dok